>>**by the way, WA State Park parking fees start applying on 1 Jan
2003!!! $5 daily or $50-$70 annually<<
Good Grief!! Do they have gold in these parks ?! I'd have to plan carefully
so that I got all the parks boxes in one or two trips with just day passes,
or else I'd go broke! :-) What DO the parks have that keeps people coming in
and willing to pay those fees?
Scoutdogs
Park fees
10 messages in this thread |
Started on 2002-12-14
Park fees
From: Dog Scouts Troop (DogScouts@hotmail.com) |
Date: 2002-12-14 21:05:22 UTC-05:00
Re: Park fees
From: the7nails <7nails@truthmail.com> (7nails@truthmail.com) |
Date: 2002-12-15 06:02:36 UTC
State Park Fees--an explanation.
A couple of years ago there was a statewide initiative that the
citizens of Washington State voted on to eliminate excessive car
tab fees. The initiative passed and every vehicle in the state
(theoretically) was from then on charged a flat rate of $30 per
year for licensing. Local governments then began to charge
various fees to suppliment the moneys they lost but overall the
$30 license tabs stuck. This caused a huge dent in the state
coffers. Liberal politicians and beaurocrats began whining
about the lost revenue and how this would destroy much
progress in fighting hunger, poor health conditions, school
lunches, etc. The politicians were forced to begin to cut
spending and one of the first things they did was cut funding to
the state parks system as a punishment of sorts to the voters for
passing the initiative. Many parks were closed altogether and
many more were slated for seasonal closures. Use fees began
to be implemented to help pay for maintenance and salaries of
skeleton staff.
Since the original initiative passed, the state courts overturned
the initiative calling it unconstitutional. Smart legislators heard
the people speak at the polls and quickly passed legislation in
the state house and senate to cut the tab fees to the $30 limit.
Other initiatives have been run and more progress has been
made from a consumers standpoint on cutting onerous taxes at
the state level. But the politicians and beauraucrats just keep
whining. We now have been informed (no public vote was
offered) by the beauraucrats in the state parks department that
there must be these expensive use fees in order to save the
parks system.
Although I dont agree with the methods that the Washington
State Parks system used to arrive at this move, and I certainly
dont agree with the state courts on the ruling that the car tab
initiative is unconstitutional, I do believe in use fees. The people
who use the parks should support the parks. Unfortunately, this
will limit many peoples access or at least discourage it. It is a
shame that it had to come to this. My family will purchase an
annual permit to access all the parks in the state. We will
probably do the same for Oregon Parks as there are many
letterboxes within a days drive of us here in Olympia, WA. Many
other people who may be interested in letterboxing may not be
able to afford this however, and that is just really a shame.
I call on all letterboxers in the Washington and Oregon areas
(and other states too) to continue to place new boxes in city
parks and other municipal areas that do not have access fees in
order to keep the sport affordable to new participants. Dont stop
placing boxes in the state parks or other areas requiring access
or entry or parking fees but be considerate of those folks who
cannot afford the $50 or $70 per year or $5 per day fees.
Sometines it is well worth the fee to get to a great box or better
yet a great location box or not. But still, we must be considerate.
Nailhead
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dog Scouts Troop"
wrote:
> >>**by the way, WA State Park parking fees start applying on 1
Jan
> 2003!!! $5 daily or $50-$70 annually<<
>
> Good Grief!! Do they have gold in these parks ?! I'd have to plan
carefully
> so that I got all the parks boxes in one or two trips with just day
passes,
> or else I'd go broke! :-) What DO the parks have that keeps
people coming in
> and willing to pay those fees?
>
> Scoutdogs
A couple of years ago there was a statewide initiative that the
citizens of Washington State voted on to eliminate excessive car
tab fees. The initiative passed and every vehicle in the state
(theoretically) was from then on charged a flat rate of $30 per
year for licensing. Local governments then began to charge
various fees to suppliment the moneys they lost but overall the
$30 license tabs stuck. This caused a huge dent in the state
coffers. Liberal politicians and beaurocrats began whining
about the lost revenue and how this would destroy much
progress in fighting hunger, poor health conditions, school
lunches, etc. The politicians were forced to begin to cut
spending and one of the first things they did was cut funding to
the state parks system as a punishment of sorts to the voters for
passing the initiative. Many parks were closed altogether and
many more were slated for seasonal closures. Use fees began
to be implemented to help pay for maintenance and salaries of
skeleton staff.
Since the original initiative passed, the state courts overturned
the initiative calling it unconstitutional. Smart legislators heard
the people speak at the polls and quickly passed legislation in
the state house and senate to cut the tab fees to the $30 limit.
Other initiatives have been run and more progress has been
made from a consumers standpoint on cutting onerous taxes at
the state level. But the politicians and beauraucrats just keep
whining. We now have been informed (no public vote was
offered) by the beauraucrats in the state parks department that
there must be these expensive use fees in order to save the
parks system.
Although I dont agree with the methods that the Washington
State Parks system used to arrive at this move, and I certainly
dont agree with the state courts on the ruling that the car tab
initiative is unconstitutional, I do believe in use fees. The people
who use the parks should support the parks. Unfortunately, this
will limit many peoples access or at least discourage it. It is a
shame that it had to come to this. My family will purchase an
annual permit to access all the parks in the state. We will
probably do the same for Oregon Parks as there are many
letterboxes within a days drive of us here in Olympia, WA. Many
other people who may be interested in letterboxing may not be
able to afford this however, and that is just really a shame.
I call on all letterboxers in the Washington and Oregon areas
(and other states too) to continue to place new boxes in city
parks and other municipal areas that do not have access fees in
order to keep the sport affordable to new participants. Dont stop
placing boxes in the state parks or other areas requiring access
or entry or parking fees but be considerate of those folks who
cannot afford the $50 or $70 per year or $5 per day fees.
Sometines it is well worth the fee to get to a great box or better
yet a great location box or not. But still, we must be considerate.
Nailhead
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dog Scouts Troop"
> >>**by the way, WA State Park parking fees start applying on 1
Jan
> 2003!!! $5 daily or $50-$70 annually<<
>
> Good Grief!! Do they have gold in these parks ?! I'd have to plan
carefully
> so that I got all the parks boxes in one or two trips with just day
passes,
> or else I'd go broke! :-) What DO the parks have that keeps
people coming in
> and willing to pay those fees?
>
> Scoutdogs
Re: Park fees
From: dvn2rckr (dvn2rckr@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2002-12-15 06:38:40 UTC
Well said Nailhead--I, too, will get an annual state park pass, I
just find it WAY steep compared to other states where I've purchased
annual passes in my lifetime (TX, AZ, CA, NPS)--it's the same amount
as a National Park Pass which gets you into spectacular parks around
the entire country!!! This one really bites the pocketbook BIG
TIME! There is an incredible little park a few miles down the road
from my house with a gorgeous beach along the Sound with a few
possible letterbox hiding spots, I've avoided placing a box there
simply because it has a $3 parking fee! Long story but I figured my
outrageous property taxes already covered local park maintenance--
guess not--so, in a way, I've sort of been conducting a personal
boycott of the little park.
As for those pesky car tabs, I'm still holding my breath for the $30
tabs. grumble, grumble... ;) Last time I registered a car a few
months back, it exceeded $100!
Yes, I reiterate what Nailhead says regarding placing boxes in all
different venues around this beautiful country in an effort to keep
this wonderful sport open to folks from all different financial
backgrounds/situations! The low cost factor is really a major
attraction of this sport (besides the adventure aspect of it). I
also dabble in scuba diving, skiing, swimming & triathlons--
letterboxing has been, by far, the least expensive, the most
rewarding and something I can do with the entire family (including
the little ones)!!!
Thanks for such thoughtful comments!
See you on the trails...
dvn2r ckr
just find it WAY steep compared to other states where I've purchased
annual passes in my lifetime (TX, AZ, CA, NPS)--it's the same amount
as a National Park Pass which gets you into spectacular parks around
the entire country!!! This one really bites the pocketbook BIG
TIME! There is an incredible little park a few miles down the road
from my house with a gorgeous beach along the Sound with a few
possible letterbox hiding spots, I've avoided placing a box there
simply because it has a $3 parking fee! Long story but I figured my
outrageous property taxes already covered local park maintenance--
guess not--so, in a way, I've sort of been conducting a personal
boycott of the little park.
As for those pesky car tabs, I'm still holding my breath for the $30
tabs. grumble, grumble... ;) Last time I registered a car a few
months back, it exceeded $100!
Yes, I reiterate what Nailhead says regarding placing boxes in all
different venues around this beautiful country in an effort to keep
this wonderful sport open to folks from all different financial
backgrounds/situations! The low cost factor is really a major
attraction of this sport (besides the adventure aspect of it). I
also dabble in scuba diving, skiing, swimming & triathlons--
letterboxing has been, by far, the least expensive, the most
rewarding and something I can do with the entire family (including
the little ones)!!!
Thanks for such thoughtful comments!
See you on the trails...
dvn2r ckr
Re: [LbNA] Re: Park fees
From: (TeamCocoJul@aol.com) |
Date: 2002-12-15 01:47:10 UTC-05:00
Hi!
The Florida State Park Annual Pass (for up to 8 people in a family) is $60.00 per year.
And for whoever's keeping the tally, there are so far (*only* 44 letterboxes here <grin>)
Team CocoJul
The Florida State Park Annual Pass (for up to 8 people in a family) is $60.00 per year.
And for whoever's keeping the tally, there are so far (*only* 44 letterboxes here <grin>)
Team CocoJul
[LbNA] Re: Park fees
From: SpringChick (letterbox@attbi.com) |
Date: 2002-12-15 07:42:34 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, TeamCocoJul@a... wrote:
> Hi!
> The Florida State Park Annual Pass (for up to 8 people in a family)
is $60.00
> per year.
Yes, and when you purchase a daily pass in a FL state park, it is
good only for the park you purchased it at. If you go down the road
to another park, you must purchase another $3-5 day pass.
In MI a daily state park pass is $5, but it will get you into as many
parks as you can get to in a day. Better yet, the yearly remains a
bargain at $20.
Deb (SpringChick)
> Hi!
> The Florida State Park Annual Pass (for up to 8 people in a family)
is $60.00
> per year.
Yes, and when you purchase a daily pass in a FL state park, it is
good only for the park you purchased it at. If you go down the road
to another park, you must purchase another $3-5 day pass.
In MI a daily state park pass is $5, but it will get you into as many
parks as you can get to in a day. Better yet, the yearly remains a
bargain at $20.
Deb (SpringChick)
Re: [LbNA] Re: Park fees
From: Mary Ellen Martel (memlili54@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2002-12-15 05:25:12 UTC-08:00
I must try to share a bit of perspective from someone who lives surrounded by Acadia National Park. Those of us who are fortunate to have parks in our backyards also have to share them with those who are not so fortunate. As more areas are eaten up by development, the parks become even more popular. Acadia has the highest ratio of visitors per square mile of any National Park in the country. The number of visitors coming to our parks every year is huge. This has a tremendous impact on the natural setting and the infrastructure. Add to this the staffing required to adequately oversee these areas and there is not adequate funding from taxation to take care of these issues. And we won't even consider the costs of sending out the search and resuce team every time someone decides they don't want to follow the trail, would rather make their own and fall down the side of a mountain. The point is, if we want to have these areas preserved for our enjoyment and that of our children and grandchildren, we have to help provide financial support. Yes, I swallow when I pay a park fee (especially here on the island - afterall, this is MY home), but most day fees are not much more than I would pay for a 2-hour video, which would not be nearly as beneficial for my body, spirit and soul. Maybe annual park passes should be appearing on people's holiday gift lists!
Memlili
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[LbNA] Re: Park fees
From: SpringChick (letterbox@attbi.com) |
Date: 2002-12-15 14:08:21 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Mary Ellen Martel
wrote:
>
Maybe annual park passes should be appearing on people's holiday gift
lists!
That is a great gift idea! Only problem is that here in Michigan
they are very strange about the purchase of vehicle permits -- you
can only purchase them at the parks (not online, or via mail/phone)
and they make you adhere them to the vehicle window at the time of
purchase. Once I had a rental while my vehicle was in for repair and
they would not allow me to purchase a yearly sticker and hold onto it
to place on my own vehicle.
They have a phobia that people will try to rip them off and share the
sticker between vehicles, which is probably a valid concern.
Personally I feel that if I purchase a yearly pass I should be able
to use it in whichever vehicle I decide to back out of the garage
that day...
I do like the gift idea though and may try it for my kids. It will
be interesting to see what they do when I purchase 4 yearly permits.
Obviously they wouldn't make me put them all on the vehicle I am in!
Deb (SpringChick)
>
Maybe annual park passes should be appearing on people's holiday gift
lists!
That is a great gift idea! Only problem is that here in Michigan
they are very strange about the purchase of vehicle permits -- you
can only purchase them at the parks (not online, or via mail/phone)
and they make you adhere them to the vehicle window at the time of
purchase. Once I had a rental while my vehicle was in for repair and
they would not allow me to purchase a yearly sticker and hold onto it
to place on my own vehicle.
They have a phobia that people will try to rip them off and share the
sticker between vehicles, which is probably a valid concern.
Personally I feel that if I purchase a yearly pass I should be able
to use it in whichever vehicle I decide to back out of the garage
that day...
I do like the gift idea though and may try it for my kids. It will
be interesting to see what they do when I purchase 4 yearly permits.
Obviously they wouldn't make me put them all on the vehicle I am in!
Deb (SpringChick)
Re: [LbNA] Re: Park fees
From: (gbecket@aol.com) |
Date: 2002-12-15 09:13:02 UTC-05:00
Park fees permits as a gift is great idea! Instead of a video game or movie, give someone a permit and letterboxing supplies (carving medium, tools and directions; plastic containers; a book; ink pad; compass; instructions, etc.) and a print out of an easy first box in their area - what a great present!
Re: [LbNA] Re: Park fees
From: BB (bburk@harbornet.com) |
Date: 2002-12-15 06:39:40 UTC-08:00
Consider the money saved on vehicle tabs for a new or near new car, you're still
ahead.
Time will tell if the park dept. knows how to put the money to good use, or if
this is just the start of spiraling park use fees until only them that have can
afford to visit the state parks.
I would like to see a reduced fee incentive based on volunteer maintenance to
help defray costs and give folks the feeling of ownership in the park resource.
Trial n Error
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:38 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Park fees
> Well said Nailhead--I, too, will get an annual state park pass, I
> just find it WAY steep compared to other states where I've purchased
> annual passes in my lifetime (TX, AZ, CA, NPS)--it's the same amount
> as a National Park Pass which gets you into spectacular parks around
> the entire country!!! This one really bites the pocketbook BIG
> TIME! There is an incredible little park a few miles down the road
> from my house with a gorgeous beach along the Sound with a few
> possible letterbox hiding spots, I've avoided placing a box there
> simply because it has a $3 parking fee! Long story but I figured my
> outrageous property taxes already covered local park maintenance--
> guess not--so, in a way, I've sort of been conducting a personal
> boycott of the little park.
>
> As for those pesky car tabs, I'm still holding my breath for the $30
> tabs. grumble, grumble... ;) Last time I registered a car a few
> months back, it exceeded $100!
>
> Yes, I reiterate what Nailhead says regarding placing boxes in all
> different venues around this beautiful country in an effort to keep
> this wonderful sport open to folks from all different financial
> backgrounds/situations! The low cost factor is really a major
> attraction of this sport (besides the adventure aspect of it). I
> also dabble in scuba diving, skiing, swimming & triathlons--
> letterboxing has been, by far, the least expensive, the most
> rewarding and something I can do with the entire family (including
> the little ones)!!!
>
> Thanks for such thoughtful comments!
>
> See you on the trails...
>
> dvn2r ckr
>
>
> To unsubscribe: mailto:letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> List etiquette, info, etc: http://www.letterboxing.org/list.html
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
ahead.
Time will tell if the park dept. knows how to put the money to good use, or if
this is just the start of spiraling park use fees until only them that have can
afford to visit the state parks.
I would like to see a reduced fee incentive based on volunteer maintenance to
help defray costs and give folks the feeling of ownership in the park resource.
Trial n Error
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:38 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Park fees
> Well said Nailhead--I, too, will get an annual state park pass, I
> just find it WAY steep compared to other states where I've purchased
> annual passes in my lifetime (TX, AZ, CA, NPS)--it's the same amount
> as a National Park Pass which gets you into spectacular parks around
> the entire country!!! This one really bites the pocketbook BIG
> TIME! There is an incredible little park a few miles down the road
> from my house with a gorgeous beach along the Sound with a few
> possible letterbox hiding spots, I've avoided placing a box there
> simply because it has a $3 parking fee! Long story but I figured my
> outrageous property taxes already covered local park maintenance--
> guess not--so, in a way, I've sort of been conducting a personal
> boycott of the little park.
>
> As for those pesky car tabs, I'm still holding my breath for the $30
> tabs. grumble, grumble... ;) Last time I registered a car a few
> months back, it exceeded $100!
>
> Yes, I reiterate what Nailhead says regarding placing boxes in all
> different venues around this beautiful country in an effort to keep
> this wonderful sport open to folks from all different financial
> backgrounds/situations! The low cost factor is really a major
> attraction of this sport (besides the adventure aspect of it). I
> also dabble in scuba diving, skiing, swimming & triathlons--
> letterboxing has been, by far, the least expensive, the most
> rewarding and something I can do with the entire family (including
> the little ones)!!!
>
> Thanks for such thoughtful comments!
>
> See you on the trails...
>
> dvn2r ckr
>
>
> To unsubscribe: mailto:letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> List etiquette, info, etc: http://www.letterboxing.org/list.html
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
[LbNA] Re: Park fees
From: the7nails <7nails@truthmail.com> (7nails@truthmail.com) |
Date: 2002-12-15 21:33:29 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "BB" wrote:
> I would like to see a reduced fee incentive based on volunteer
maintenance to
> help defray costs and give folks the feeling of ownership in the
park resource.
I just posted an idea for group fundraising and sponsorship of
newbies. I like your idea, Bill. I would very much be in support of
us local SSounders getting together to volunteer at some local
parks. Perhaps we could 'earn' passes for those less fortunate
than ourselves that we could give as gifts.
Nailhead
> I would like to see a reduced fee incentive based on volunteer
maintenance to
> help defray costs and give folks the feeling of ownership in the
park resource.
I just posted an idea for group fundraising and sponsorship of
newbies. I like your idea, Bill. I would very much be in support of
us local SSounders getting together to volunteer at some local
parks. Perhaps we could 'earn' passes for those less fortunate
than ourselves that we could give as gifts.
Nailhead